April 12, 2006

  • B"H


    "Thanks for covering this subject.


    Interestingly, for the "non-Law" Christians, Jesus said that he came "not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it."  Also, Paul intimated that if we accept God's grace through faith in Jesus, then we would gladly change our lives and live in agreement with God's statutes, although many things are now permissable because of the Gentiles being included - "unclean" foods, etc...  So, those that say that we are free from the Law are not quite correct, I think.  It might be better to say that we are free to fulfill God's instruction, not bound by it, legalistically.


    Is this a correct view, in your estimation?


     


    John"


     


     Thanks for joining in this conversation John, I really appreciate it. I only have a few moments here now, but I really wanted to say something.


    Hi John,


    Hmmm, first let me thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. There is so much to say on this topic I hardly know where to start. I like your perspective although I don't agree with it completely. For sure it's true that most Gentile believers don't understand the concept of being "grafted into the Vine." The Jewishness of Jesus is seen as merely being a historical occurrence and not as a starting point for the context of true worship and discipleship. The faith into which the Gentiles are grafted is the heritage of the community of Jacob. Our GOD is the GOD of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. The particulars of the Torah and the culture it establishes are not binding upon Gentiles as they are upon Jews (Acts 15) , but they were not abolished either (Matt 5:17 - 19) as you so nicely quoted. Unclean foods are still unclean, and Jews are required to abide by the dictates of the Torah, but not for the reasons that most Christians think. In simple terms I would describe it as a matter of obedience or faithfulness to the Jewish Witness (I shall be your GOD and you shall be My witnesses - therefore you shall do ... etc & etc).


    Gentiles are free to observe various aspects of Torah lifestyle, but one must always remember this: the Torah was never intended to be a means of righteousness. Righteousness comes from GOD and trusting Him to produce in us, Jew or Gentile, the fruits, or the evidence, of His presence. Most arguments against Torah observance assume the position of works for righteousness. A lot of energy and thought is put into effort, but from a Jewish standpoint it's almost comical. I might listen to a whole presentation against earning salvation through doing good works and then say, "That's a nice argument you have there, but who are you talking about?" To assume that Judaism or believing Jews hold this position is false. It's what is often called a strawman.


    Anyway, I have to go now, but there shall be more to follow shortly. Here's a thought that I'll leave for you and others to consider. Wouldn't it nice if there were a place where believing Jews and Gentiles could worship and work together in the name of the LORD for His glory???


    Shlomo


     

Comments (3)

  • - for the last section: absolutely

    - for the earlier section, thank you for your perspective.  It's good to get this information from the source, not from "a source" reporting on the source

    - Have a blessed Passover season

  • Yes, it would be nice to be able to come to one place to worship and work together for the glory of God!

    Thank you for illuminating this issue, although I know that I still have many questions.  We Gentile believers are quite a "cloistered" or blind group of Christians, and we have totally cut the Jewishness out of our lives and worship.  I have been trying to find this Jewishness, for want of a better explanation, through reading the Old Testament and applying what I read there to everything that I read in the New Testament.

    I know that you are right about that "strawman" - faith by works.  The whole system of sacrifice before the destruction of the Temple in 90 AD (is that the right date?) shows plainly, to me, that works do not save us, and that this system was pointing the patriarchs forward toward the coming Messiah which the prophets prophesied about.

    One thing that I am not completely clear about is why the Jewish believers must continue to follow the culture established by the Torah, if all believers are now one in Christ.  I can see why that would be so for those Jews that do not believe that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb and Messiah, but why would that be still binding if they accept Jesus as their Messiah? - if it is binding upon them, why not upon the Gentiles that become saved into this completely Jewish religion?

    Also, if Peter was a Jew, and if the unclean things that he saw in his vision (Romans 10: 9-14) were now to be clean to him, and that God said to not call them unclean anymore, then why would the kosher diet and other cultural practices enacted by the Torah be binding on any Jew?

    I know that I am not explaining my questions well, so please be patient....I am only trying to be correct.  I really want to know the Truth.  I want to include these New Testament Scripture passages to help explain where I am coming from.

    Again, thank you for your patience.  I don't intend to be badgering you in any way, it's just that I have been hoping to find a Messianic Jewish believer who can explain these things to me.

    John

    RO 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

    RO 2:28 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

    RO 3:1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.

  • B"H

    Michael, 

    Thanks for the Passover greeting. I don't know if you are participating in any of the events of Holy Week so I wish you a Blessed Resurrection Day.

    Shlomo

Comments are closed.

Post a Comment